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	<title>Comments on: No bailouts for people who can pay their mortgages</title>
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		<title>By: Abigail</title>
		<link>http://sensetosave.com/2009/03/19/no-bailouts-for-people-who-can-pay-their-mortgages/comment-page-1/#comment-38163</link>
		<dc:creator>Abigail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:48:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sensetosave.com/?p=1128#comment-38163</guid>
		<description>Scott,

I do feel for those of you who felt that the house you bought was worth it. I bought a house before prices had gone completely crazy, but even so paid $325,000 for a three bedroom plus MIL because it&#039;s in Seattle.

But you say that while no one needs a house, people need housing. Okay. But that still doesn&#039;t explain people buying houses rather than renting. Yes, rental prices will go up. That&#039;s why you have to look hard. Each time I have moved to a new apartment, I&#039;ve generally looked at 5-15 places, as well as scoured ads for a couple of weeks. I understand that in moving to a new city (especially in the case of job loss), you don&#039;t have the luxury of time, per se. 

But I guess the question is: Why did you buy a place you didn&#039;t like? Why not rent? I know a few people who shared a room with siblings without incident. I understand it&#039;s preferable for kids to have separate bedrooms, but while salaries are low, sacrifices are made.

And you said you didn&#039;t believe the house was worth it, equating it to gas prices. Um, why on earth would you BUY a house if you didn&#039;t feel it was worth the money you paid? Why not rent? A 2 or 3 bedroom apartment? Or, yes, even a home. There are plenty of owners out there who have had homes for awhile and thus are able to charge different prices. Here in Seattle, you can sometimes find 2 bedroom houses in the northern part of the city for $1000. You can also find them for $1900. It just depends on the house and the owner.

And when gas prices were so ridiculous a lot of people found alternatives. Bus transportation skyrocketed. People drove less. they generally found as many ways as possible around the prices that they found so ridiculous.

I am sorry that circumstances forced you to live in a city with a high cost of living. I am sorry that you couldn&#039;t really get your family a nicer house. But again, no one deserves a house. There&#039;s nothing wrong with renting. Perhaps the argument is that rentals were almost as much as a mortgage. Even so, while I&#039;m sure times were very difficult and I can&#039;t imagine the pressure you were under after a job loss, I wonder if it was the best idea to move to a city with such a high cost of living, given that you knew what your salary would be and how much your equity would translate to. 

The fact is, you went from a house to a house. I wonder if you even considered an apartment or renting. I think once you have had a house, it&#039;s very difficult to go back to apartment life. I know this from experience. But I also know that choices, however unsavory, are still choices.

&lt;em&gt;Abigail&#039;s last blog post..&lt;/em&gt;&lt;a href=&#039;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/IPickUpPennies/~3/gS0iChyxBxs/who-will-recession-favor.html&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Are we too optimistic?&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott,</p>
<p>I do feel for those of you who felt that the house you bought was worth it. I bought a house before prices had gone completely crazy, but even so paid $325,000 for a three bedroom plus MIL because it&#8217;s in Seattle.</p>
<p>But you say that while no one needs a house, people need housing. Okay. But that still doesn&#8217;t explain people buying houses rather than renting. Yes, rental prices will go up. That&#8217;s why you have to look hard. Each time I have moved to a new apartment, I&#8217;ve generally looked at 5-15 places, as well as scoured ads for a couple of weeks. I understand that in moving to a new city (especially in the case of job loss), you don&#8217;t have the luxury of time, per se. </p>
<p>But I guess the question is: Why did you buy a place you didn&#8217;t like? Why not rent? I know a few people who shared a room with siblings without incident. I understand it&#8217;s preferable for kids to have separate bedrooms, but while salaries are low, sacrifices are made.</p>
<p>And you said you didn&#8217;t believe the house was worth it, equating it to gas prices. Um, why on earth would you BUY a house if you didn&#8217;t feel it was worth the money you paid? Why not rent? A 2 or 3 bedroom apartment? Or, yes, even a home. There are plenty of owners out there who have had homes for awhile and thus are able to charge different prices. Here in Seattle, you can sometimes find 2 bedroom houses in the northern part of the city for $1000. You can also find them for $1900. It just depends on the house and the owner.</p>
<p>And when gas prices were so ridiculous a lot of people found alternatives. Bus transportation skyrocketed. People drove less. they generally found as many ways as possible around the prices that they found so ridiculous.</p>
<p>I am sorry that circumstances forced you to live in a city with a high cost of living. I am sorry that you couldn&#8217;t really get your family a nicer house. But again, no one deserves a house. There&#8217;s nothing wrong with renting. Perhaps the argument is that rentals were almost as much as a mortgage. Even so, while I&#8217;m sure times were very difficult and I can&#8217;t imagine the pressure you were under after a job loss, I wonder if it was the best idea to move to a city with such a high cost of living, given that you knew what your salary would be and how much your equity would translate to. </p>
<p>The fact is, you went from a house to a house. I wonder if you even considered an apartment or renting. I think once you have had a house, it&#8217;s very difficult to go back to apartment life. I know this from experience. But I also know that choices, however unsavory, are still choices.</p>
<p><em>Abigail&#8217;s last blog post..</em><a href='http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/IPickUpPennies/~3/gS0iChyxBxs/who-will-recession-favor.html' rel="nofollow">Are we too optimistic?</a></p>
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		<title>By: Carrie</title>
		<link>http://sensetosave.com/2009/03/19/no-bailouts-for-people-who-can-pay-their-mortgages/comment-page-1/#comment-37922</link>
		<dc:creator>Carrie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 19:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sensetosave.com/?p=1128#comment-37922</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know how I feel about people with ARMs getting bailed out.  Obviously they need assistance, and I don&#039;t want anyone to end up without a roof over their head.  It&#039;s just that if an ARM was a person&#039;s only option for purchasing a home it meant that person really couldn&#039;t afford to be in a home.  If you chose an ARM over a fixed rate, well, that is a consequence you should have to pay.  A home IS an investment and carries risk... these people took a gamble when they chose to go forward with an ARM.  

I also think it is silly to sell simply because you are upside down.  My husband and I lost a little over 20k in the value of our home in only a couple months, and it&#039;s frustrating.  Yet when purchasing this home we knew that we would be here 5-8 years, so why sell when we planned to be here for that length of time?  We are constantly told that if we are not close to retirement age to keep up with a 401(k) and wait it out... if you can afford the payment why not wait it out??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know how I feel about people with ARMs getting bailed out.  Obviously they need assistance, and I don&#8217;t want anyone to end up without a roof over their head.  It&#8217;s just that if an ARM was a person&#8217;s only option for purchasing a home it meant that person really couldn&#8217;t afford to be in a home.  If you chose an ARM over a fixed rate, well, that is a consequence you should have to pay.  A home IS an investment and carries risk&#8230; these people took a gamble when they chose to go forward with an ARM.  </p>
<p>I also think it is silly to sell simply because you are upside down.  My husband and I lost a little over 20k in the value of our home in only a couple months, and it&#8217;s frustrating.  Yet when purchasing this home we knew that we would be here 5-8 years, so why sell when we planned to be here for that length of time?  We are constantly told that if we are not close to retirement age to keep up with a 401(k) and wait it out&#8230; if you can afford the payment why not wait it out??</p>
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		<title>By: Around the Blogosphere: 3/22/09 &#124; Moms Need To Know</title>
		<link>http://sensetosave.com/2009/03/19/no-bailouts-for-people-who-can-pay-their-mortgages/comment-page-1/#comment-37847</link>
		<dc:creator>Around the Blogosphere: 3/22/09 &#124; Moms Need To Know</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 01:27:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sensetosave.com/?p=1128#comment-37847</guid>
		<description>[...] Kacie at Sense to Save wrote a great piece about why it&#8217;s ok to be upside-down in a mortgage if you can afford your payments and aren&#8217;t planning on moving.  Read it here [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Kacie at Sense to Save wrote a great piece about why it&#8217;s ok to be upside-down in a mortgage if you can afford your payments and aren&#8217;t planning on moving.  Read it here [...]</p>
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		<title>By: K.H.</title>
		<link>http://sensetosave.com/2009/03/19/no-bailouts-for-people-who-can-pay-their-mortgages/comment-page-1/#comment-37846</link>
		<dc:creator>K.H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 01:26:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sensetosave.com/?p=1128#comment-37846</guid>
		<description>I absolutely agree with this post.  No one was holding a gun on these homeowners to force them to sign for these mortgages.  Why didn&#039;t we personally trade up to a huge house and a huge mortgage or take the equity out for other stuff?  Because there is always a payday coming and it would have been stupid to sign for something that we wouldn&#039;t be able to afford. If doesn&#039;t matter if it&#039;s in an area where the bubble has burst, if a borrower signed for a loan, you should pay it back.  The Government and taxpayers shouldn&#039;t be picking up the tab.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I absolutely agree with this post.  No one was holding a gun on these homeowners to force them to sign for these mortgages.  Why didn&#8217;t we personally trade up to a huge house and a huge mortgage or take the equity out for other stuff?  Because there is always a payday coming and it would have been stupid to sign for something that we wouldn&#8217;t be able to afford. If doesn&#8217;t matter if it&#8217;s in an area where the bubble has burst, if a borrower signed for a loan, you should pay it back.  The Government and taxpayers shouldn&#8217;t be picking up the tab.</p>
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		<title>By: QuickHits: March Madness Edition &#124; Prime Time Money</title>
		<link>http://sensetosave.com/2009/03/19/no-bailouts-for-people-who-can-pay-their-mortgages/comment-page-1/#comment-37824</link>
		<dc:creator>QuickHits: March Madness Edition &#124; Prime Time Money</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:45:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sensetosave.com/?p=1128#comment-37824</guid>
		<description>[...] No bailouts for people who can pay their mortgages [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] No bailouts for people who can pay their mortgages [...]</p>
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		<title>By: DG</title>
		<link>http://sensetosave.com/2009/03/19/no-bailouts-for-people-who-can-pay-their-mortgages/comment-page-1/#comment-37699</link>
		<dc:creator>DG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 21:30:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sensetosave.com/?p=1128#comment-37699</guid>
		<description>By the way you are not bailing people out if they walk away.  The law is written and has always been written for people to have ways out of insurmountable debts like housing.  The true fact is no one has done much to bail at any home owners so far.  All the bailout money has help banks because they are taking such huge losses on homes rather than working with home owners to modify their payments to something affordable.  If someone was paying you $3000 a month, but you found out they could only afford $2000 a month would you rather just take their home and then sell it to someone for $1200 a month?  This is essentially what the banks are doing.  Obama&#039;s plan will do nothing to help those of us underwater... its really on their to help the people in the middle who aren&#039;t underwater.  They have already decided the underwater loans aren&#039;t worth saving at this point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way you are not bailing people out if they walk away.  The law is written and has always been written for people to have ways out of insurmountable debts like housing.  The true fact is no one has done much to bail at any home owners so far.  All the bailout money has help banks because they are taking such huge losses on homes rather than working with home owners to modify their payments to something affordable.  If someone was paying you $3000 a month, but you found out they could only afford $2000 a month would you rather just take their home and then sell it to someone for $1200 a month?  This is essentially what the banks are doing.  Obama&#8217;s plan will do nothing to help those of us underwater&#8230; its really on their to help the people in the middle who aren&#8217;t underwater.  They have already decided the underwater loans aren&#8217;t worth saving at this point.</p>
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		<title>By: DG</title>
		<link>http://sensetosave.com/2009/03/19/no-bailouts-for-people-who-can-pay-their-mortgages/comment-page-1/#comment-37698</link>
		<dc:creator>DG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 21:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sensetosave.com/?p=1128#comment-37698</guid>
		<description>The car analogy is not great... it is absolutely stupid not even being close to the same case.  The reason people would walk away from their home and not a car is because you can rent the same home for half the price you are currently paying in many cases.  This is NOT the case with a car.  Renting a similar car would probably cost you 70-80% more than the payments to buy one.  If cars were suddenly half the price to rent that they are to own people would hand their keys to the bank I guarantee you that.  As you state before you expect a car to lose 20% of its value the day you drive off the lot.  No one expects housing to lose value as it is supposed to be an appreciating asset(unlike a car which everyone knows is a depreciating asset).  99% of the time if you hold onto your car for 10 years it won&#039;t eventually regain its value.  Like someone else said, you have a lot more options on ways to save money when buying a car... with housing you are stuck paying whatever the market says houses in your area are worth.

All you people who say people shouldn&#039;t walk away completely fail to realize the magnitude of the bubble in many places.  I&#039;m guessing not many of you live in CA, NV, AZ, or FL.  In many situations such as mine... people lost 60% of the value of a home they bought in 2 years.  I didn&#039;t pull money out of my house, I didn&#039;t spend extravagantly, all I did was buy a home at the worst time in the history of the United States.  Now someone can buy a home next to mine for half the price I paid and to add insult to injury, they will pay lower property taxes, and they will also have a much lower interest rate because rates are now at 4.5%.  It would be nice if I could refi and get this rate as it would save me about $800 a month, unfortunately my loan to value ratio is 220% because it has fallen 60% and I had an 80/20 no money down loan.  

Anyone in a situation like mine has absolutely no incentive to keep paying. To make matters worse CA raised taxes on everyone including middle incomes by about $1000 per family this year.  So I&#039;m supposed to pay my absurdly high price, high interest rate, extra taxes,pay to help other get into a home much cheaper than I did, and pay to help people who didn&#039;t take nearly as big of hit that have LTV ratios at 105% or lower all while still paying my insanely high loan?  Well don&#039;t worry I am not even going to bother trying.  Maybe I could do it, maybe I couldn&#039;t, but at this point it isn&#039;t worth even trying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The car analogy is not great&#8230; it is absolutely stupid not even being close to the same case.  The reason people would walk away from their home and not a car is because you can rent the same home for half the price you are currently paying in many cases.  This is NOT the case with a car.  Renting a similar car would probably cost you 70-80% more than the payments to buy one.  If cars were suddenly half the price to rent that they are to own people would hand their keys to the bank I guarantee you that.  As you state before you expect a car to lose 20% of its value the day you drive off the lot.  No one expects housing to lose value as it is supposed to be an appreciating asset(unlike a car which everyone knows is a depreciating asset).  99% of the time if you hold onto your car for 10 years it won&#8217;t eventually regain its value.  Like someone else said, you have a lot more options on ways to save money when buying a car&#8230; with housing you are stuck paying whatever the market says houses in your area are worth.</p>
<p>All you people who say people shouldn&#8217;t walk away completely fail to realize the magnitude of the bubble in many places.  I&#8217;m guessing not many of you live in CA, NV, AZ, or FL.  In many situations such as mine&#8230; people lost 60% of the value of a home they bought in 2 years.  I didn&#8217;t pull money out of my house, I didn&#8217;t spend extravagantly, all I did was buy a home at the worst time in the history of the United States.  Now someone can buy a home next to mine for half the price I paid and to add insult to injury, they will pay lower property taxes, and they will also have a much lower interest rate because rates are now at 4.5%.  It would be nice if I could refi and get this rate as it would save me about $800 a month, unfortunately my loan to value ratio is 220% because it has fallen 60% and I had an 80/20 no money down loan.  </p>
<p>Anyone in a situation like mine has absolutely no incentive to keep paying. To make matters worse CA raised taxes on everyone including middle incomes by about $1000 per family this year.  So I&#8217;m supposed to pay my absurdly high price, high interest rate, extra taxes,pay to help other get into a home much cheaper than I did, and pay to help people who didn&#8217;t take nearly as big of hit that have LTV ratios at 105% or lower all while still paying my insanely high loan?  Well don&#8217;t worry I am not even going to bother trying.  Maybe I could do it, maybe I couldn&#8217;t, but at this point it isn&#8217;t worth even trying.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://sensetosave.com/2009/03/19/no-bailouts-for-people-who-can-pay-their-mortgages/comment-page-1/#comment-37691</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 16:37:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sensetosave.com/?p=1128#comment-37691</guid>
		<description>The difference between cars and houses if that you can still buy inexpensive cars. If someone on a janitors salary goes out to buy a Lexus, then it&#039;s their fault they&#039;re in mess.

But imagine if you went to the used car lot and and found that demand and poor practices pushed up the prices of even a 5 year old Chevy compact car to $30K. That janitor will either have to find some other way to get around, or buckle down and find a way to afford that car, sacrificing other expenses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The difference between cars and houses if that you can still buy inexpensive cars. If someone on a janitors salary goes out to buy a Lexus, then it&#8217;s their fault they&#8217;re in mess.</p>
<p>But imagine if you went to the used car lot and and found that demand and poor practices pushed up the prices of even a 5 year old Chevy compact car to $30K. That janitor will either have to find some other way to get around, or buckle down and find a way to afford that car, sacrificing other expenses.</p>
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		<title>By: ChristianPF</title>
		<link>http://sensetosave.com/2009/03/19/no-bailouts-for-people-who-can-pay-their-mortgages/comment-page-1/#comment-37688</link>
		<dc:creator>ChristianPF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 15:48:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sensetosave.com/?p=1128#comment-37688</guid>
		<description>Kacie, like you mention the car analogy is a great one... People deal with this everyday - but somehow the house is different?

BTW, thanks for the mention!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kacie, like you mention the car analogy is a great one&#8230; People deal with this everyday &#8211; but somehow the house is different?</p>
<p>BTW, thanks for the mention!</p>
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		<title>By: Renee</title>
		<link>http://sensetosave.com/2009/03/19/no-bailouts-for-people-who-can-pay-their-mortgages/comment-page-1/#comment-37682</link>
		<dc:creator>Renee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sensetosave.com/?p=1128#comment-37682</guid>
		<description>We&#039;re about to find out if we&#039;re upside down in our mortgage.  We&#039;re refinancing after almost 2 years of mortgage payments.  While we really hope the house hasn&#039;t depreciated (since that will effect our closing costs), we&#039;d never abandon our house.  Yes, our house was an investment, but it&#039;s also our home.  We bought it because we love the location, the neighborhood, the floor plan, and the style.  It&#039;s too big for us now, but we plan to fill it up!  I&#039;m so glad that we bought the house we could stay in for years so we won&#039;t need to move if/when we have another child.
The key in all this mess is personal responsibility.  We bought a house (mortgage) we could afford.  If my husband were to be unemployed for over a year we would be in trouble, but so would 90% of single-income households.  The bailout money should go to those who bought responsibly, but can&#039;t weather the long-term effects of this recession.  It should NOT go to real estate investors who were gambling, anymore than it should go to someone who put their mortgage payment into a slot machine and lost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;re about to find out if we&#8217;re upside down in our mortgage.  We&#8217;re refinancing after almost 2 years of mortgage payments.  While we really hope the house hasn&#8217;t depreciated (since that will effect our closing costs), we&#8217;d never abandon our house.  Yes, our house was an investment, but it&#8217;s also our home.  We bought it because we love the location, the neighborhood, the floor plan, and the style.  It&#8217;s too big for us now, but we plan to fill it up!  I&#8217;m so glad that we bought the house we could stay in for years so we won&#8217;t need to move if/when we have another child.<br />
The key in all this mess is personal responsibility.  We bought a house (mortgage) we could afford.  If my husband were to be unemployed for over a year we would be in trouble, but so would 90% of single-income households.  The bailout money should go to those who bought responsibly, but can&#8217;t weather the long-term effects of this recession.  It should NOT go to real estate investors who were gambling, anymore than it should go to someone who put their mortgage payment into a slot machine and lost.</p>
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